Transcript:
Daniella Gibbs Léger: Hey everyone. Welcome back to “The Tent,” your place for politics, policy, and progress. I’m Daniella Gibbs Léger.
Colin Seeberger: And I’m Colin Seeberger. Daniella, it’s finally warming up in Washington, D.C.
Gibbs Léger: Finally. Ladies and gentlemen, we have entered false spring. So it is a meteorological term here because it is going to get cold, I think, on Sunday again. I know, I know, but I will take it. Like, these upper 50s, it’s sunny—I love it.
Seeberger: Yes.
Gibbs Léger: Bring on the allergies. I know I’m going to be miserable, but I’m going to be so happy.
Seeberger: Well, as much as we want it to be spring, it’s still the best month of the year. It’s February.
Gibbs Léger: Indeed.
Seeberger: It is my birthday month.
Gibbs Léger: My son’s birthday month as well.
Seeberger: Your son’s birthday month, my anniversary. It’s also Black History Month.
Gibbs Léger: Yes, it is.
Seeberger: Yeah. And I hear you had a really good conversation about Black History Month this week.
Gibbs Léger: I did. I talked to Eddie Glaude Jr. about what DEI really means and who it benefits, the white supremacy of the Trump administration, and how to celebrate Black History Month.
Seeberger: A really timely conversation, to be sure. But first, we’ve got to get to some news.
Gibbs Léger: We do, Colin, and while you and I, on a personal level, have been reeling from the dangerous anti-democratic onslaught of executive orders from the Trump administration, we are not the only ones.
There’s a growing sense of unrest, even among Trump voters. Many in red states are being directly hit by the huge cuts the administration and DOGE have made to government services and programs. You can see it at town halls being held by Republican members of Congress this past weekend. Their constituents—many of them lifelong, card-carrying members of the GOP—are demanding answers to everything from Elon Musk’s haphazard purge of the federal government to congressional Republicans’ budget plan to enact the largest cut in Medicaid in American history, all to pay for tax cuts for the wealthy.
U.S. Rep. Stephanie Bice (R) held a town hall in Oklahoma where a retired U.S. Army officer and Republican asked her, “How can you tell me that DOGE, with some college whiz kids from computer terminals in Washington, D.C., without even getting into the field after about a week or maybe two, have determined that it’s OK to cut veterans’ benefits?” It’s a legitimate question, Colin.
Seeberger: It certainly is. I think we’ve got a lot more of them we need to be asking.
Gibbs Léger: Exactly. Several Republicans have been booed or yelled at when Elon Musk or his DOGE cuts come up—people like U.S. Rep. Rich McCormick (R) of Georgia, who is now publicly criticizing DOGE. It shouldn’t take getting publicly booed to make these people realize that Americans don’t want their health care ripped away or preschools being unable to pay their bills because of [President Donald] Trump’s funding freeze and DOGE’s incompetence.
Seeberger: It shouldn’t, Daniella. And yet it doesn’t seem to be sinking in for some Republican lawmakers, who are opting to skip town halls, cancel appearances, and duck their constituents instead of answering questions about their support for this dangerous agenda that’s harming the American people.
Heck, in response to the town halls from this past weekend, NBC News reported that Republican leaders in Congress are actively recommending members do tele-town halls instead of in-person town halls or discouraging their members from holding them all together, for fear that viral video clips could spread like wildfire all over the country and cause even more mass protest.
Don Bacon (R), a congressman from Nebraska; Ryan Zinke (R), a congressman from Montana; Tom Barrett (R), congressman from Michigan; and Jeff Hurd (R), congressman from Colorado—the list goes on. These people are literally abandoning a core tenet of their public service— interacting with their constituents, right?—because they don’t want to explain the harms the Trump administration’s agenda is doing to their communities.
And by the way, if you want to talk about people already feeling the squeeze of Trump’s ruthless policies, we’ve got to talk about the farmers many of these lawmakers represent. Because they’re primarily from rural communities, red states, where farming isn’t just an economic driver, it’s a way of life, Daniella.
Trump’s tariff policies will drive up the price of equipment and supplies and make family farms bear the brunt of retaliatory trade tariffs. And that’s not even talking about the fact that many of them have been shut out from the federal funding that they were promised because of President Trump’s funding freeze.
I read a sobering account in The [Washington] Post this week from a Republican couple in Iowa, Suzanne and Joe Shirbroun, whose family has been farming their land since 1874.
Gibbs Léger: Wow.
Seeberger: That’s a long time.
Gibbs Léger: Yes.
Seeberger: They talked about the growing cost and the uncertainty of the markets and how scared they are about the policies that Trump was putting forward, even though they voted for him.
I’ve got to say, it’s really disheartening to see people seemingly getting conned by Donald Trump and his administration. A local radio station here in the D.C. metro area, WTOP, they ran a story last week on a disabled veteran who worked in IT for the federal government and lost his job because of DOGE cuts. He voted for Trump and didn’t anticipate the scale of DOGE’s efforts and how indiscriminate and incompetent they would be. He literally said, “We didn’t think that they were going to take a chainsaw to a silk rug.”
Gibbs Léger: Yikes. And that is exactly what they’re doing, Colin. And let’s be clear: The economic effects are going to ripple out for everyone in this country. During his inauguration, Donald Trump promised that we will be entering the, quote, “golden age” of America. But the only people with any gold coming their way these next four years will be Trump’s billionaire donors.
Seeberger: Speak on that.
Gibbs Léger: Look no further than the MAGA Republican budget plan. The framework the House passed on Tuesday night locks in steep cuts to programs the American people rely on, like Medicaid, while the top 1 percent get a $1.24 trillion tax giveaway.
Seeberger: One percent? That’s amazing.
Gibbs Léger: Yeah, 1 percent. The top 1 percent, $1.24 trillion under this MAGA Republican rip-off. Their proposal would slash Medicaid by $880 billion and could eliminate coverage for 16 million people in both red states and blue states.
For example, in California’s 22nd District, a swing district represented by U.S. Rep. David Valadao (R), nearly two-thirds of his constituents rely on Medicaid. That’s 67,000 people in his district who lose their health care. Kentucky’s 5th District, a red district represented by U.S. Rep. Hal Rogers (R), could see nearly 100,000 people lose their health care. These are really staggering numbers.
Seeberger: How do you show back up in your district after doing something like that?
Gibbs Léger: I truly do not understand.
Seeberger: It boggles the mind.
Gibbs Léger: Apparently they’re not going to, right? These proposals would also make steep cuts to programs that provide food to low-income Americans and keep 1 in 8 people in America from going hungry. They would increase electricity prices by 10 percent and gasoline prices by more than 20 cents a gallon across the next decade or so. They’d end tax policies that saved American families $8.4 billion on their energy bills and energy-efficient home improvements in 2023 alone. And they could slash tax refunds for working families by hundreds of billions of dollars.
Seeberger: I mean, I was thinking through some of this the other day, and they’re talking about ending tax policies that benefit the working class, like the child and dependent care tax credit that helps people pay for child care, or the American opportunity tax credit, which helps people who are in school be able to afford education-related expenses.
These are things that those at the very top may not value. It may not matter to them. But it’s really, really crucial to folks who are trying to get by, right? And when you look at this also juxtaposed against what we’ve seen from the administration so far, we’ve seen that the priorities of the working class have basically been nonexistent.
The Trump administration has ended plans for capping the cost of generic drugs at $2 for seniors on Medicare. They gut the wind and EV industries. These are two of the fastest-growing manufacturing sectors in the country. All just to benefit Trump’s billionaire Big Oil donors. He also launched a reckless trade war with countries all over the globe.
And he said that it may cause some pain for people, but that’s the price that we’ve got to pay. These policies have real impacts. Inflation has remained sticky. The economy is starting to undershoot economic forecasts, according to experts. And a well-respected report for the University of Michigan this week recently showed that consumer confidence is plummeting.
Top companies are also forecasting lower profits in 2025. We saw new data out from Walmart when they did their quarterly economic report, and they said that they were actually projecting lower revenue estimates and lower growth, saying it wouldn’t be immune from geopolitical uncertainty or the impacts of potential tariffs.
Walmart is the nation’s largest retailer and grocer, so, it’s really considered to be sort of an indicator of broader health of consumers, right? The lower forecast sent Walmart shares down 6 percent. And it really is starting to look like Trump’s priorities could be doing real damage to the economy. I’ve just got to be super clear here, Daniella: MAGA Republicans, the president, they own what’s happening—
Gibbs Léger: One hundred percent.
Seeberger: —to the economy right now.
Gibbs Léger: Yes.
Seeberger: Where is the bill to lower the cost of groceries? Eggs, coffee are near all-time highs, and I’ve seen nothing done to address the cost of housing, address the cost of child care. Why are Republicans cutting health care instead of making it more accessible and affordable? This is just not a priority for them.
Each and every day, Democrats need to be hammering them for what their agenda is doing to our economy and really kicking the stool out from under America’s middle class. And they also need to be talking about their own solutions to solving people’s problems.
Gibbs Léger: That’s exactly right. And they have to contrast the cruelty with the Republican plans with how they are going to make it easier for people to get by.
Seeberger: Exactly, Daniella. Well, that’s all the time we have for today. If there’s anything you’d like us to cover on the pod, hit us up on Twitter, Instagram, Threads, and Bluesky @TheTentPod. That’s @TheTentPod.
Gibbs Léger: And stick around for my interview with Dr. Eddie Glaude Jr. in just a beat.
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Gibbs Léger: Dr. Eddie Glaude Jr. is a distinguished professor of African American studies at Princeton. He’s written several books, including Begin Again: James Baldwin’s America and Its Urgent Lessons for Our Own. He previously served as president of the American Academy of Religion. His work appears regularly in outlets like Time magazine and MSNBC.
Dr. Eddie Glaude, I want to thank you so much for joining us on “The Tent.”
Eddie Glaude: It’s my pleasure. It’s my pleasure to be with you.
Gibbs Léger: So we have a lot to discuss today. Many of Donald Trump’s actions right now are designed to distract, confuse, and cause panic—the exact opposite of how government is supposed to function. You recently wrote that this is a tool of authoritarianism.
So how do you see democratic backsliding happening in real time under this administration? And are we past the point of no return? Please say no to that.
Glaude: You know, I haven’t quite figured it out yet. I do know that much of the vibrancy of American democratic life has not depended upon laws, but actual norms. And Donald Trump is blowing through those norms at every turn. We’ve been worried about the imperial presidency, this unitary theory of the executive. And given the dysfunction of Congress, we’ve seen executive orders in Democratic administrations and Republican administrations, but norms provided the constraints.
But here we have a person who’s not necessarily committed to democracy as such and definitely not committed to those norms that in some ways provide the guardrails for our system of government. So, I think he presents a clear and present danger to democracy. And I do know this: That what he has done over the course of these few weeks that he’s been in office—it feels like a lifetime—
Gibbs Léger: It feels like a year.
Glaude: —is in some ways, saturated our attention, soaked us in executive order after executive order, destabilized our sense of government’s role and purpose. And in some ways, that destabilization opens the door for deepening undemocratic efforts and practices. So, I don’t know if we’ve reached a point of no return yet, but I do know we are stepping squarely through the door.
Gibbs Léger: Well, unsurprisingly, this administration has set about making white supremacy the effective law of the land. How are they accomplishing this, from a policy perspective? And what damages has already been done in the, what, four weeks that this man has been in office?
Glaude: I mean, policy-wise, DEI is the shorthand for a white nationalist project.
And let’s be clear, what we’re experiencing at a certain macro level is a re-litigation of the social revolutions of the mid-20th century, trying to roll back the gains of the Black freedom movement, roll back the gains of the gay liberation movement, of the women’s liberation movement. And what we’re seeing in real detail is an attempt to kind of root out, to snatch up the infrastructure that the Civil Rights Movement made possible. And you do it under the guise of merit, under the guise that DEI is somehow reverse racism or reverse discrimination.
And so we’re seeing this at the level of education, in terms of the impact of the Supreme Court’s affirmative action decision, and the recent—I mean, it’s, I don’t know what, it’s a screed, what the acting assistant secretary of civil rights in the Department of Education sent out, I think [Craig] Trainor or something, about ceasing all DEI programs and instruction, giving people two weeks to do it, from K–12 to universities and colleges, and then threatening federal funding, which ranges from free and reduced lunches to work study. And so what we’re seeing at the level of education is an attempt—to use Adam Serwer’s language—to engage in “the great resegregation.”
We’re seeing this with Pete Hegseth in the Department of Defense. We’re seeing it across agencies. And then they try to gaslight us with a Black History Month event. So I think part of what we have to do in this moment is to describe what is clearly, at least to me, an attempt to execute a white nationalist project. And I don’t think there’s a better description for it, to be honest with you.
Gibbs Léger: Let’s continue talking about DEI for a moment. Because this administration certainly has made that term a scapegoat for everything from government waste to plane crashes. And unfortunately, it feels like this has become very popular within this country, and that some of his supporters are effectively using DEI almost as a slur. And when I think about diversity, equity, and inclusion, it’s not just Black people who benefit from this.
So can you talk about what that really means? Who benefits from it? And what is the real culprit behind government inefficiency? So if we’re saying it’s not DEI, like, we’ve got to give the people, well, what is it? Or is government inefficiency just—are they gaslighting us in that, too?
Glaude: Well, I suspect, look, any massive bureaucracy is going to have inefficiencies built into it. And when we think about the scale of the federal government, we need to understand that given what it’s charged to do across these many domains, there are going to be excesses. And those excesses are a reflection not only of bureaucracies themselves, but it’s also the excesses of Congress folks who put it in the legislation.
Gibbs Léger: Right.
Glaude: We talk about pork and how that pork can then, in so many ways, lead to congestive heart failure, right? So it has consequences across government. So we need to just recognize that for what it is.
And we also need to recognize the gaslighting. The attempt to think that waste and fraud will somehow resolve the budgetary issues, when we know it’s really the Defense Department, it’s really in so many ways our social obligation, our moral obligation to our elderly and to the poor. You have these folk, when we begin to interrogate their values, we’ve already ripped out the social safety net that the “Great Society” tried to put in place. And now they’re going after Medicaid. And then they’re going to go after Medicare? And we know that Social Security can be resolved if they just simply let me pay my Social Security taxes the entire year, as opposed to cutting it off when I reach a certain amount.
So, selfishness is driving a lot of this. And they don’t want to really deal with the defense budget in the way that they say that they will. So I think that that’s the reality. And when we talk about DEI in its particulars and depending upon what arena you’re in—I’m in education. DEI is a site for women, particularly white women. It’s a space for the disabled. It’s a space for first gen, so first-generation students. I mean, so that’s the class dimension of it, as well as race and sexuality. So it’s really about the broad diversity of the country. And it reflects on the fact that for much of the country’s history, that diversity was locked out of opportunity.
And so when you decide not to tell the true story of the nation, then you can easily conclude that these sorts of programs aren’t necessary. Because you don’t want to admit that people like me weren’t able to come to Princeton until the 1960s, right? That the majority of these [predominately white institutions], in so many ways, we just got access to.
And if you’re going to turn your back on DEI, well, what does that mean? Are you no longer going to talk about accessible buildings? Are you no longer going to talk about offering programs for someone from Appalachia, in Kentucky, and the like? What are you doing?
And so part of this comes out of, I think, this zero-sum game that some of these folk have fallen for, as Heather McGhee talks about. They believe that it’s OK when we’re hurting. It’s all right when these others are hurting. It’s OK when you are engaged in immigration. It’s OK if you think of DEI as really just simply Black people.
But once these people start feeling the pinch, now we see all of this vitriol and anger in these town hall meetings and you kind of say, huh, folk are really profoundly selfish in this country.
Gibbs Léger: Yes. Plus 100 to that sentiment. I want to turn to Black History Month as we talk about our history. And I think there are important lessons that we can draw on in this moment from the Civil Rights Movement about how to resist oppression and fight for change under a regime that is actively seeking to dehumanize and even criminalize lots of people.
So, do you agree with my thesis there? And what do you think we can learn from civil rights activists of the past?
Glaude: You know, I think it’s going to be a challenge for us in so many ways. Oftentimes we reach for the Civil Rights Movement, and we forget that it’s actually a historical anomaly.
Gibbs Léger: Really?
Glaude: It’s unprecedented in certain ways. When you think about the grand scope of struggle, Black struggle in the country, that period in the 20th century of mass mobilization, of sit-ins and marches and the like—it’s unprecedented in so many ways, from abolition to that moment. And so we’re going to have to understand the uniqueness of our moment.
What we can glean from the Civil Rights Movement is the necessity for courage, the necessity for imagination, the willingness to risk. But what we can’t do is simply imitate the strategies and techniques of that period. Our moment requires something of us. You and I were built for such times as these. And our task is not to engage in a kind of nostalgia that then leads us to a kind of mimicry, that’s all we need to do is get in the streets and march. No, no, no, no—something else. Because Trump is waiting for us to get in the streets.
Gibbs Léger: Yes.
Glaude: If he’s going to blow past these norms in the way that we began our conversation, he’s waiting to deploy the military in response to us being in the streets. So we’re going to have to be much more imaginative in how we think about this thing, and I think this is what we’re going to have to do. At least, this is where we begin.
Washington, D.C., is going to be dysfunctional. It’s going to be locked up. And we know the midterms, the House is going to flip. And I say that because the Republicans in the era of Trump have never won when he’s not on the ballot.
Gibbs Léger: Right.
Glaude: Right?
Gibbs Léger: Yeah.
Glaude: And so, he’s not going to be on the ballot. And so everything is going to grind to a halt. He might do his damage prior to this over the next two years, but it’s going to go—all of the innovation is going to happen downstream. So we have to lock in locally. Lock in, in our school districts. Lock in, in our city councils. Lock in at our boards of supervisors. Lock in at the statehouse. Because that’s where all of the innovation and work is going to happen politically.
Now, organizing—that’s going to take a different kind of form. And the model I have in my head is a model from the ’60s. We’re not duplicating it or imitating. But the organizing of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, creating the conditions under which everyday, ordinary people can imagine themselves as the leaders they’ve been looking for.
So what we can take from them, take from that period, is the willingness to risk everything right now. Because the country might not survive this moment, but you and I are charged to be much more creative. We can’t just simply follow behind Al Sharpton in a march. We can’t just simply wait on litigation. We’re going to have to think together about how we do this work. I don’t know what that’s going to look like, but I know we’re going to have to do it.
Gibbs Léger: Colloquially, we talk about celebrating Black History Month. And, I don’t know about you, but it feels a little hard to celebrate things right now. But still, there is an element of resistance in finding joy.
So my final question to you is, how are you observing this month? And do you have any thoughts for our listeners? Do you want to share how to find hope, positivity, or even joy in this moment?
Glaude: You know, just because the federal government doesn’t celebrate Black History Month doesn’t mean we don’t. It wasn’t for them in the first place.
Gibbs Léger: That’s true.
Glaude: So in 1926, when Carter G. Woodson founded Negro History Week—now remember, mind you, 1926 is the 150th anniversary year of the nation. And when we think of 1926, many of us want to reach for the Harlem Renaissance and the like, but we need to understand that the 1920s in the United States was basically dominated by the Klan. The Immigration Act of 1924 was basically written by members of the Klan. There’s a deep sense of white Anglo-Saxonism that’s driving U.S. domestic policy and foreign policy at this moment.
So, hey, Carter G. Woodson wants to tell a story about us that goes beyond Frederick Douglass and Abraham Lincoln, that talks about the complex and extraordinary contributions of Black folk to this country. And by doing that, that wasn’t just for the nation, it was for us to understand our power.
And so, [James] Baldwin taught me that human beings are at once miracles and disasters. And so we need to understand that we’re capable of the miraculous. And when we study our tradition, the tradition that made me who I am, we see all of these improbable aristocrats, folk who did the impossible. And so instead of giving over our power, conceding to these forces, no, no, no, no, no—we stand in the tradition that made us who we are. That’s the wind beneath our wings. And we risk everything. We bring the fullness of who we are in this moment right now. And guess what? When we do that, change is possible. And that’s where hope is located.
Gibbs Léger: You know what? Thank you so much for those inspiring words. I feel 100 times better than I did when I woke up this morning after talking to you. So, Dr. Eddie Glaude, thank you so much for joining us on “The Tent.”
Glaude: It is my pleasure. I appreciate you. Take care of yourself.
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Gibbs Léger: Well, that’s going to do it for us this week. Please be sure to go back and check out previous episodes. But before we go, Colin, I know neither of us have watched “The Bachelor” this week, so we’ll talk about it next week.
Seeberger: Yes.
Gibbs Léger: Let’s talk about how we also spend our time.
Seeberger: What are you talking about, Daniella?
Gibbs Léger: Looking at Instagram.
Seeberger: OK, guilty as charged.
Gibbs Léger: Yes. OK. I think we should tell the people what is dominating our timelines these days.
Seeberger: Well, if you know me, you know I love music. And right now, my feed is full of Lady Gaga content as we are awaiting the release of “Mayhem” next week, March 7. And I’m super stoked for it to come out.
I will also say, my husband and I bought a house last year. And let’s just say that the previous owners had some interesting aesthetic choices.
Gibbs Léger: So polite.
Seeberger: Yes. I’m nothing if not diplomatic, Daniella. And so I am constantly dreaming up fantasy kitchen stuff and whatnot. So, I’ve got random renovations and design people, whatever, all boosting my hopes and dreams more than my budget will provide. But it’s fun to scroll and dare to dream, right?
Gibbs Léger: Exactly! You’ve got to get inspiration. It comes in all places. Even things that are unattainable can inspire.
Seeberger: Yes, that’s right.
Gibbs Léger: So, for me, I am a woman of a certain age, and I’ve been told that I need to eat more protein, Colin. It is very important for the bones and stuff.
Seeberger: You have to.
Gibbs Léger: OK. So I guess I looked up one thing, and now all I get are all these creators who are making high-protein delicious meals. And it’s been great. I’ve gotten some really awesome ideas. But it’s just so funny how you search for one thing, and then that becomes everything on your feed.
Seeberger: Totally.
Gibbs Léger: Also, cats. So, I’m allergic to cats. I love cats so much. I think they’re the best creatures around—maybe better than humans. And so, I will watch every cat video that comes across my timeline.
Seeberger: Cat lady coming out?
Gibbs Léger: Listen, certain cat videos that I know I’ve seen already, I’ll watch them multiple times because they’re very funny. I particularly love the ones where the cats sound like they’re talking back and it sounds like they’re saying “hi” and “no.” And yeah, so there’s a lot of that. And then there’s also a lot of Travis Kelce, Jason Kelce, Taylor Swift, Kylie Kelce content.
Seeberger: Of course.
Gibbs Léger: Yeah.
Seeberger: There has to be.
Gibbs Léger: Yeah.
Seeberger: I would expect nothing less.
Gibbs Léger: Of course not. And I hope that Travis and Taylor are off doing wonderful things, but like, throw us a bone.
Seeberger: Please.
Gibbs Léger: I need a picture. I need something. Give the people what they want. Not everything, because some people are very creepy with it, but like, a picture would be nice.
Seeberger: You know all too well that it would do the most in my life. So yes, I am fully on board. Come on, guys. Let’s get it done.
Gibbs Léger: Yes, let’s prove the haters wrong. Also, we need all the joy we can find in 2025.
Seeberger: That we certainly could.
Gibbs Léger: Yes, even if it’s vicariously through people we don’t know.
Seeberger: Yes.
Gibbs Léger: And parasocial relationships. Let’s make it happen. All right. Well, on that note, y’all take care of yourselves, and we will talk to you next week.
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Gibbs Léger: “The Tent” is a podcast from the Center for American Progress Action Fund. It’s hosted by me, Daniella Gibbs Léger, and co-hosted by Colin Seeberger. Erin Phillips is our lead producer. Kelly McCoy is our supervising producer. Mishka Espey is our booking producer. And Muggs Leone is our digital producer. Hai Phan, Olivia Mowry, and Toni Pandolfo are our video team.
Views expressed by guests of “The Tent” are their own, and interviews are not endorsements of a guest’s perspectives. You can find us on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, Google Play, or wherever you get your podcasts.